Liars

Khaled Hosseini

Khalid Hosseini is my favorite author and his book, the Kite Runner speaks to me more than any other.

The Kite Runner

“there is only one sin, only one. And that is theft. Every other sin is a variation of theft. When you kill a man, you steal a life… you steal his wife’s right to a husband, rob his children of a father. When you tell a lie, you steal someone’s right to the truth. When you cheat, you steal the right to fairness… there is no act more wretched than stealing.”

He obviously does not think lying is fundamental, but that stealing is.

Christianity

Scripture

  1. Genesis
    •  You will not certainly die, the serpent said to the woman ( Genesis 3:4 )
  2. Leviticus
    • Do not steal, Do not lie, Do not deceive one another ( Leviticus 19:1 )
  3. Psalm
    • O LORD, who shall sojourn in your tent? Who shall dwell on your holy hill? He who walks blamelessly and does what is right and speaks truth in his heart; ( Psalm 15:1-2 )
    • For the Lord is right; and all His works are done in truth ( Psalm 33:4 )
    • I hate and detest falsehood ( Psalm 119:163 )
    • …The LORD has sworn to David A truth from which He will not turn back: “Of the fruit of your body I will set upon your throne.
      “If your sons will keep My covenant And My testimony which I will teach them, Their sons also shall sit upon your throne forever.”
      For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His habitation.…
      ( Psalm 132:12 )
  4. Proverbs
    • Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart. ( Proverbs 3:3 )
    • The LORD detests lying lips, but he delights in people who are trustworthy. ( Proverbs 12:22 )
    • An honest witness does not deceive, but a false witness pours out lies. ( Proverbs 14:5 )
    • Eloquent lips are unsuited to a godless fool— how much worse lying lips to a ruler! ( Proverbs 17:7 )
  5. Ecclesiastes
    • Keep this in mind: The Teacher was considered wise, and he taught the people everything he knew. He listened carefully to many proverbs, studying and classifying them.
      The Teacher sought to find just the right words to express truths clearly.
      ( Ecclesiastes 12:9-10 )
  6. Job
    • The righteous also shall hold on his way, and he that hath clean hands shall be stronger and stronger. ( Job 17:9 )
  7.  Isaiah
    • I did not speak in secret, in a land of darkness; I did not say to the offspring of Jacob, ‘Seek me in vain.’ I the Lord speak the truth; I declare what is right. ( Isaiah 45:19 )
    • Truth is nowhere to be found,
      and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.
      The Lord looked and was displeased
      that there was no justice.
      ( Isaiah 59:15 )
  8. Daniel
    • But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth: there is none who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince. ( Daniel 10:21 )
  9. Malachi
    • The law of truth was in his mouth, and unrighteousness was not found in his lips; he walked with Me in peace and uprightness, and did turn many away from iniquity. ( Malachi 2-6 )
  10.  Hosea
    • Ephraim has surrounded me with lies, Israel with deceit. And Judah is unruly against God, even against the faithful Holy One. ( Hosea 17:2 )
  11. Zechariah
    • These are the things that you shall do: Speak the truth to one another; render in your gates judgments that are true and make for peace; ( Zechariah 8:16 )
  12.  Zephaniah
    • They will do no wrong; they will tell no lies. A deceitful tongue will not be found in their mouths. They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid.” ( Zephaniah 3:13 )
  13. John
    • Jesus and the Samaritan Woman …”God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.” ( John 4:25 )
    • “If I were to testify on my own behalf, my testimony would not be valid.
      But someone else is also testifying about me, and I assure you that everything he says about me is true.
      In fact, you sent investigators to listen to John the Baptist, and his testimony about me was true.
      Of course, I have no need of human witnesses, but I say these things so you might be saved.
      John was like a burning and shining lamp, and you were excited for a while about his message.
      But I have a greater witness than John—my teachings and my miracles. The Father gave me these works to accomplish, and they prove that he sent me. And the Father who sent me has testified about me himself. You have never heard his voice or seen him face to face, and you do not have his message in your hearts, because you do not believe me—the one he sent to you.
    • So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
      and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
      They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free ‘?”…
      ( John 8: 31-33 )
    • You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. ( John 8:44 )
    • The truth is, a kernel of wheat must be planted in the soil. Unless it dies it will be alone – a single seed. But its death will produce many new kernels — a plentiful harvest of new lives ( John 12:24 )
    • Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. ( John 14-17 )
    • The Promise of the Holy Spirit …However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come. He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you. Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.… ( John 16:14 )
    • Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
      As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
      And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.( John 17:17-19 )
    • “You are a king, then!” said Pilate. Jesus answered, “You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” ( John 18:37 )
  14. Acts
    • Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? ( Acts 5:3 )
    • Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. ( Acts 20:30 )
  15. Romans
    • Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. ( Romans 1:24-25 )
  16.  Ephesians
    • Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. ( Ephesians 4:29 )
  17. Colossians
    • Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices ( Colossians 3:9 )
  18. 1st Corinthians
    • This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.
      The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
      The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments
  19. 2nd Corinthians
    • For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory ( 2 Corinthians 4:6 )
  20. Hebrews
    • For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and ha fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? ( Hebrews 10:26-29 )
  21. 1 Timothy
    • This and this only has been my appointed work: getting this news to those who have never heard of God, and explaining how it works by simple faith and plain truth. ( 1 Timothy 2:3-4 )
    • Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. ( 1 Timothy 4:2 )
  22. 2 Timothy
    • But God’s truth stands firm like a foundation stone with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and “All who belong to the Lord must turn away from evil.” ( 2 Timothy 2:19)
    • Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth (  2 Timothy 2:25 )
    • holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. ( 2 Timothy 3:5-7 )
  23. Ephesians
    • Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.
      ( Ephesians 4:15 )
  24. 2 Thessalonians
    • He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. ( 2 Thessalonians 2:10 )
  25. Philippians
    • And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and all discernment.
      So that you can discern what is best, that you may be pure and blameless
      for the day of Christ
      ( Philippians 1:9 -10 )
  26. 1 John
    • …By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him:… ( 1st John 2:3-5 )
    • But you belong to God, my dear children. You have already won a victory over those people, because the Spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world.
      Those people belong to this world, so they speak from the world’s viewpoint, and the world listens to them.But we belong to God, and those who know God listen to us. If they do not belong to God, they do not listen to us. That is how we know if someone has the Spirit of truth or the spirit of deception. ( 1 John 4:6 )
  27.  Titus
    • I have been sent to proclaim faith to[a] those God has chosen and to teach them to know the truth that shows them how to live godly lives.
      This truth gives them confidence that they have eternal life, which God—who does not lie—promised them before the world began.
      And now at just the right time he has revealed this message, which we announce to everyone. It is by the command of God our Savior that I have been entrusted with this work for him. ( Titus 1:1-3 )
    • …not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed. ( Titus 1:14-16 )
  28.  James
    • Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. ( James 3:1 )
  29. 2 Peter
    • But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves.
      Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered.
      In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.
  30.  Revelation
    • The Lamb and the 144,000 …These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They have been redeemed from among men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And no lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless. ( Revelation 14:5 )
    • Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. ( Revelation 22:15 )

Quotes

  1. Cutting It Straight with H.B. Charles Jr. [ Link ] & [ Link ]
    • Do not ever let their reaction control your faithfulness to the text ( Segment :- 20 thru 23 Minutes)
    • Preaching without a firm conviction and their can be no power in that preaching ( Segment :- 35-37 Minutes )
    • Error thrives in ambiguity. Playing around the margins.  One position is just as good as the other
    • We are living in very critical times
    • Satan’s great strength is that his lies make sense
    • Apologetics demands familiarity
    • Familiarity with the genuine lets one identify the counterfeit; for most people that is how they should reach the truth; they should not have to play around on the other side)
  2. R. Albert Mohler, Jr
    • Can be assured that his weak and evasive non-answer to this reporter’s question will put him at very little risk for arrest. But then, pandering prophets are rarely at much of a risk from the public anyway. There was no conviction in his answer; no clear declaration of biblical truth; no Gospel, no judgment, and no promise. Just a non-answer with a smile. Pathetic . . . simply pathetic.”
  3. Ravi Zacharias
    • The Hebrews gave to the world the moral categories. The Romans gave to the world the legal categories. The Greeks gave to the world the philosophical categories. The pursuit of the Hebrews was light. The pursuit of the Romans was glory, the glory of the Roman empire. The pursuit of the Greeks was knowledge. Now this is fascinating. The apostle Paul was born a Hebrew, a citizen of Rome, and studied in a Greek city. In 2 Corinthians 4:6 he writes, “For God, who said, ‘Light shall shine out of darkness,’ is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ”.
    • Truth is what guides our lives. If we don’t know God’s truth, we will unfortunately ground our life and existence in a lie. Ravi Zacharias said “ The fact is, the truth matters – especially when you’re on the receiving end of a lie.” A life grounded in truth is stable, strong and deeply rooted.
    • Intent has to precede content. To him who does not love the truth. To give him the truth is to multiply the reasons for misinterpretations
    • Narrowness means that I can not identify my own truth.
    • Truth by definition will always be restrictive. Truth will always have its boundaries.
    • Taking it a step further, the three tests for truth must be applied to any worldview: logical consistency, empirical adequacy, and experiential relevance. When submitted to these tests, the Christian message is utterly unique and meets the demand for truth.
    • A man rejects God neither because of intellectual demands nor because of the scarcity of evidence. A man rejects God because of a moral resistance that refuses to admit his need for God
    • I came to Him because I did not know which way to turn. I remained with Him because there is no other way I wish to turn. I came to Him longing for something I did not have. I remain with Him because I have something I will not trade. I came to Him as a stranger. I remain with Him in the most intimate of friendships. I came to Him unsure about the future. I remain with Him certain about my destiny. I came amid the thunderous cries of a culture that has 330 million deities. I remain with Him knowing that truth cannot be all-inclusive.
    • Every other person who is at the heart of any religion has had his or her beginning either in fancy or in fact. But nevertheless, there is a beginning. Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem was a moment preceded by eternity. His being neither originated in time nor came about by the will of humanity. The Author of time, who lived in the eternal, was made incarnate in time that we might live with the eternal in view. In that sense, the message of Christ was not the introduction of a religion, but an introduction to truth about reality as God alone knows it. To deny Jesus’ message while pursuing spirituality is to conjure an imaginary religion in an attempt to see heaven while sight is confined to the earth. That is precisely what Jesus challenged when he said, “I have come that [you] may have life” (John 10:10). His life spells living. Your life or my life, apart from Him, spells death
  4. Kill the Messenger, a movie
    • Now that you know the truth, you will be faced with the most important decision of your life. And, that will be what to with it.
  5. Pastor Paris Reidhead
    • Ruling Religion is pragmatism. If it works, it is true. If it succeeds, it is good. The test of all truth is if it works. ( Ten Shekels And A Shirt by Paris Reidhead )
  6. Chuck Missler
    • The only barrier to truth is that you already have it.
  7. Christopher Yuan
    • My Response to the Closing of Exodus International (full)  ( Link )
      • Whether Christians agree or disagree with Chambers’ statements and apologies, it is true many Christians view homosexual sex and same-sex romantic relationships to be worse than any other sin and treat LGBT people with disdain. This is truth at the expense of grace and does not reflect Gospel-centered living. We must repent of this hypocrisy. Churches encourage compassion toward unreached people groups (Muslims, ethnic minorities in Asia, tribes in South America), the poor (homeless, Dalit), and the needy (those sexually exploited, those living with HIV/AIDS), but do little to reach out to one of the most unreached people groups in America—LGBT people. Is not the Gospel to be proclaimed to all people?
  8. John Paul Jackson
    • Truth involves the motive for doing it. Fact involves just what you are doing.
    • Draw people into small groups. They don’t want you to hear.
  9. C.S. Lewis
    • But, Pain sometimes gives the only opportunity the bad man can have for amendment. It removes the veil; it plants the flag of truth within the fortress of a rebel soul….
  10. Eliza Farnham
    • The ultimate aim of the human mind, in all its efforts, is to become acquainted with Truth
  11. Anais Nin
    • Truth is something which can’t be told in a few words. Those who simplify the universe only reduce the expansion of its meaning.
  12. Kahlil Gibran
    • In battling evil, excess is good; for he who is moderate in announcing the truth is presenting half-truth. He conceals the other half out of fear of the people’s wrath.
    • Always you have been told that work is a curse and labour a misfortune. But I say to you that when you work you fulfill a part of earth’s furthest dream, assigned to you when that dream was born, and in keeping yourself with labour you are in truth loving life…
  13. Charlie Sheen
    • Regardless of their saltless reputations I also led with condoms and honesty when it came to my condition. Sadly my truth soon became their treason as a deluge of blackmail and distortion took centre stage in this circus of deceit ( Link )
  14. Jon Foreman, Switchfoot
    • Art is to remain in that tension and tell the truth.
  15. Ross Perot
    • If your wife can not trust you, who can

Preterism

Background

Going home yesterday ran into a gentleman who also happens to be a Christian Pastor.

We tracked into a discussion on Preterism.

What is Preterism?

Wikipedia

Link

Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened from the 7th century BC until the first century AD, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

Historical

A prominent preterist exposition of prophecy was written by the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar during the Counter Reformation. Moses Stuart noted that Alcasar’s preterist interpretation was of considerable benefit to the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants, and preterism has been described in modern eschatological commentary as a Catholic defense against the Protestant Historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.

Due to resistance by Protestant Historicists, the preterist view was slow to gain acceptance outside the Roman Catholic Church. Among Protestants it was first accepted by Hugo Grotius, a Dutch Protestant eager to establish common ground between Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church. His first attempt to do this was entitled ‘Commentary on Certain Texts Which Deal with Antichrist’ (1640), in which he attempted to argue that the texts relating to Antichrist had their fulfillment in the 1st century AD. This was not well received by Protestants, but Grotius was undeterred and in his next work, ‘Commentaries On The New Testament’ (1641–50), he expanded his preterist views to include the Olivet prophecy and Revelation.

 

Biblical Foundation

Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Tim 2:17-18)

Full preterism is sometimes viewed as heretical, based upon the historic creeds of the church (which would exclude this view), and also from Biblical passages that condemn a past view of the Resurrection or the denial of a physical resurrection or transformation of the body — doctrines which most Christians believe to be essential to the faith. Critics of full preterism point to the Apostle Paul’s condemnation of the doctrine of Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Tim 2:17-18), which they regard as analogous to full preterism. Adherents of full preterism, however, dispute this assertion by pointing out that Paul’s condemnation was written during a time in which (their idea of) the Resurrection was still in the future (i.e., pre-AD 70). Their critics assert that if the Resurrection has not yet happened, then the condemnation would still apply.

 

Videos

  1. Dr. Brock Hollet
    • Joel Richardson :- Debunking Preterism with Dr. Brock Hollett | The
      Underground #94
      Channel :- Joel Richardson
      Published On :- 2018-June-19th
      Link
  2. Andrew Wommack
    • Andrew Wommack – Preterism
      Link
  3. Samuel M. Frost
    • Sam Frost – Why I Left Full Hyper Preterism – AD 70
      Published On :- 2018-Sept-6th
      Link
    • Why I Left Full (Hyper) Preterism – Sam Frost
      Samuel M. Frost was once a devoted Hyper-Preterist. Now, he’s converted to Orthodox Preterism. In this interview, he explains his conversion.
      Channel :- eschatology247
      Published On :- 2013-April-5th

      Link
  4. Fountain of Israel
    • Preterism Examined & Refuted 1& 2
      Channel :- Fountain of Israel
      Published On :- 2016-Dec-6th
      Link
  5. William Lane Craig
    • Preterism Debunked – William Lane Craig
      Link
  6. Joshua Prasch
    • Amillennialism And Post Amillennialism – James Jacob Prasch – Live From England
      Channel :- Moriel Ministries
      Published :- 2016-April-15th
      Link
  7. Darrell Myatt
    • Preterism: Do You Know About This Dangerous Theology?
      Channel :- DarrellMyatt1963
      Published On :- 2009-Nov-17th

 

In-depth

Dr. Brock Hollett

Debunking Preterism with Dr. Brock Hollett | The Underground #94

  1. Every generation takes the same view that the Day of the Lord is fast approaching

Samuel M. Frost

Sam Frost – Why I Left Full Hyper Preterism – AD 70

  1. Theonomy
    • View of God word can be demonstrated
  2. Dispensation
    • Dispensation is is not a Theology.  It is an eschatology.  It begins with an eschatology and has to go back and fit all of its Theology within its eschatology per-suppositions
    • It is fragmented
    • It cannot create a coherent, cohesive,  systematic position that pertains to a world view
  3. Preterism
    • All of the Pauline letters are interpreted through 70 AD
    • Paul was expecting Jesus to come back in 70 AD
    • Everything is breaded through 70 AD
    • Parousia
    • Romans  6 through 8
    • Sanctification is to the body of Christ
    • Nothing with body resurrection
    • pigeonholed
    • Slogan of “Time of End” and not “End of Time
    • Here gone and fulfilled
    • Now what do we do with the last 2000 years
    • And, now what do we do …

Books

Book Reviews

Brock David Hollett

Debunking Preterism: How Over-Realized Eschatology Misses the Not Yet of Bible Prophecy

Amazon
Link
By 2013, he had finished writing a book defending preterism and was scheduled to be a conference speaker at a preterist prophecy conference. However, on the very night that he received the first box of 100 books from his publisher, the Lord spoke to his heart to reexamine the biblical doctrine of the resurrection of the dead, which led him to repent of his involvement with preterism.

In 2017, God placed a fresh burden on Dr. Hollett’s heart to write a book that sets forth a proper biblical eschatology and a roadmap for refuting preterism. He wrote Debunking Preterism: How Over-realized Eschatology Misses the “Not Yet” of Bible Prophecy in only three months, sensing a prophetic urgency regarding the project. Debunking Preterism will undoubtedly become the gold standard on the topic of preterism. The book is replete with a wealth of illustrative figures and comparative charts that reinforce its main concepts. Special emphasis is placed upon a proper understanding of the biblical time statements and the “already and not yet” principle of eschatology.

 

Problematic

To me there are various issues with a Preterism view.

  1. Boxing
    • It boxes God into a strong timeline
    • It boxes jesus into a strong timeline
      • It argues Jesus came back in AD 70
  2. Temple Destruction
    • It says that people already flee the temple and there is no significance into a new Temple
  3. Audience
    • It teaches that Jesus was speaking to a particular focus group and not to generations thereafter
  4. Jewish State
    • It could lead to ambiguity about the role  of an actual Jewish state
  5. Millennium Timeline
    • Verses
      • Verse ( Revelations 20:1-3)
        • And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
          He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
          He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
    • Questions
      • Will there be an actual Millennium Age
      • Or is it only Symbolic
  6. Replacement Theology
    • Stairway into replacement Theology?
    • Has God promises of Land and Davidic Rule taken place, nullified, or will occur at a later time

Summary

It is one thing to listen to discussions against a straw man.  But, when someone actually believes some of these things, it gives Christianity flesh.

 

Pastor H.B. Charles Jr – Interviewing other Pastors

 

Videos

  1. Conversations with Pastor H.B. Charles Jr. & Pastor Phillip Pointer
    • Conversations with Pastor H.B. Charles Jr. & Pastor Phillip Pointer
      Phillip L. Pointer is the Pastor of the St. Mark Baptist Church in Little Rock. After pastoring in the greater Washington D.C. area for some years, Pointer has now led the St Mark Church — one of the largest congregations in Arkansas — for the past two years. I occasionally listen to Phillip Pointer’s sermons online. And I am encouraged by how he handles the scriptures and his clear preaching. He is a much sought-after preacher who travels the country speaking at special events, alongside of his pastoral duties. It was a joy to have the opportunity to interview Phillip about his life and ministry. I enjoyed the conversation and trust you will too!
      Channel :- Cutting It Straight with H.B. Charles Jr.
      Published On:- 2015-Feb-25th
      Added On :- 2018-June-4th
      Link
  2. Terry Anderson Interview by Pastor H.B. Charles, Jr.
    • Terry Anderson Interview by Pastor H.B. Charles, Jr.
      Channel :- lillygrovembc
      Published On:- 2015-Feb-23rd
      Added On :- 2018-June-4th
      Link
  3. Charlie Dates Interview by Pastor H.B. Charles, Jr.
    • Charlie Dates Interview by Pastor H.B. Charles, Jr.
      Channel :- Cutting It Straight with H.B. Charles Jr.
      Published On:- 2014-April-9th
      Added On :- 2018-June-5th
      Link
  4. Dr. Maurice Watson Interview
    • Maurice Watson Interview
      Channel :- Cutting It Straight with H.B. Charles Jr.
      Published On:- 2013-Nov-4th
      Added On :- 2018-June-6th
      Link
  5. Dr. Ralph West Ministry Interview – Fall Church Institute
    • Profile
      • I recently had the opportunity to interview one of my preaching heros, Dr. Ralph Douglas West, the founding and Senior-Pastor of the Church Without Walls in Houston, TX. I have known Ralph West since I was a boy. And he has been a model preacher/pastor that I have followed over the course of my ministry. I cherish his friendship, counsel, and encouragement. It was my privilege to sit down with Pastor West for this one-one-one. I expected this interview to be about an hour. But Pastor West was so generous with his time, we talked for 2 1/2 hours!
    • Videos
      • Part 1….Dr. Ralph West Ministry Interview-Fall Church Institute
        Published On :- 2012-Oct-10th
        Added On :- 2018-June-7th
        Link
      • Part 2…Pastor HB Charles Jr and Dr. Ralph West Pastoral Journey Experience
        Link
  6. Dr. A. Louis Patterson Jr.
    • Videos
      • Conversations Dr. A. Louis Patterson Jr.
        Channel :- Cutting It Straight with H.B. Charles Jr.
        Published On:- 2014-Jan-19th
        Link
  7. Pastor Bryan Carter
    • Videos
      • Bryan Carter Interview
        Channel :- Cutting It Straight with H.B. Charles Jr.
        Published On:- 2013-Dec-2nd
        Link
  8. Pastor Bryan Loritts
    • Videos
      • Conversations with Pastor H.B. Charles Jr. & Bryan Loritts
        Channel :- Cutting It Straight with H.B. Charles Jr.
        Published On:- 2014-May-5th
        Link
  9. Conversations with H.B. Charles Jr.-Dr. Gary Williams
    • Videos
      • Some years ago, I preached a meeting in San Antonio. As I sat at the pastor’s conference table, I notice a flier for pastor’s conference in Jacksonville, FL. It caught my attention because one of my preaching heroes was a featured speaker. I wrote down the name of the host pastor and church to look it up when I returned to my hotel room. I have been following the ministry of Gary Williams every since that night. In the providence of God, I moved to Jacksonville a few years later. And I got to meet Gary Williams personally. We have preached for one another. And Gary has been a kind and encouraging friend to me. I have great respect and admiration for him. The First Baptist Church of Mandarin is one of the strongest churches in Jacksonville. The Lord is doing a great work in and through this Bible-teaching, Christ-centered, mission-minded congregation. And I praise God for its witness in our city. The following is my conversation with Gary about life, faith, preaching, and pastoral ministry. Gary is a man of convictions. Biblical convictions. We are kindred spirits. And I had such a ball in this conversation, at points I wanted to get out of my seat and hug him! I hope you, too, find this interview challenging and encouraging.
    • Albert Mohler, John MacArthur and H. B. Charles, Jr.
      • Profile
        • Albert Mohler, John MacArthur and H. B. Charles, Jr. having a conversation about the things that have influenced their preaching ministries.
      • Videos
        • Video #1
          Channel :- Southern Seminary
          Published :- 2015-Jan-22nd
          Link
  10. Interview with Dr. A.B. Sutton Jr.(www.hbcharlesjr.com)
    • Insightful Interview with Dr. A.B. Sutton Jr. -Living Stones Temple-Birmingham, Alabama.
      Published On:- 2012-Sept-5th
      Added On :- 2018-Dec-2nd
      Link

In-depth

Conversations with Pastor H.B. Charles Jr. & Pastor Phillip Pointer

  1. Father Critique
    • Youth Revival at Age 16
      • Don’t ever let there reaction control your faithfulness to the text ( Segment 21- 25)
  2. Virginia Union University
    • School
      • Samuel DeWitt Proctor School of Theology
        • Professor
          • Did my best not to argue with the professors
    • Allowed me to hear the sense of the liberal argument
    • Education
      • I am an advocate for Education
      • I am an advocate for Black Education
      • There is not an opportunity for people to be exposed to conservative education
  3. Liberal Versus Conservative View
    • Error thrives in ambiguity
    • One position is just as good as the other
    • You are in your mid 30s, I am in my 40s
    • Our people need the Church
    • Be aware of the sense of liberal argument
    • Satan
      • Satan’s great strength is that his lies make sense
      • Shrewdness
      • Logical thread from there to here is impeccable
    • Young People
      • Students just don’t want a devotional response, they want to be able spar intellectually
      • Not just an emotional reaction to my heritage
      • Logic
        • I have looked at the argument against it
        • As I looked at the logic, the logic falls on the side of a personal God
        • Who chooses to reveal himself to a fallen human kind
          • He choose to do so through Jesus Christ and the Scripture
    • Sometimes one has to place counterfeit and truth side by side

 

William Welty – “The Long View”

Videos

  1. The Long View – Mary Re-examined
    • Videos
      • YouTube
  2. Knowledge of the Holy Is Understanding ( Proverbs 9:10 )
    • Videos
      • YouTube

In-depth

Knowledge of the Holy Is Understanding

  1. Will
    1. A God that has no need has willed himself to have one
  2. Trusted
    • He chooses to want to be trusted
    • He wants to be trusted

Books

  1. Mary: Ten Test Questions for the World’s Finest Woman
    • Book Store

Crediting

QA March 2nd Ron Matsen, Chuck Missler, and William Welty
Channel :- Koinonia House
Published On :- 2016-March-1st
Link

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

Introduction

There is a phrase that comes across in various forms, such as:

  1. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
  2. Unforgivable Sin

Let us see how different theologians identify and tackle it.

Bible Verses

Matthew
Unpardonable Sin ( Matthew 12:31-32 ) ( Link )

“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy [every evil, abusive, injurious speaking, or indignity against sacred things] will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the [Holy] Spirit will not be forgiven.

Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit [by attributing the miracles done by Me to Satan] will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

Mark
Mark 3:28-30  ( Link )

“I assure you and most solemnly say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and all the abusive and blasphemous things they say; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit and His power [by attributing the miracles done by Me to Satan] never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin [a sin which is unforgivable in this present age as well as in the age to come]”— [Jesus said this] because the scribes and Pharisees were [attributing His miracles to Satan by] saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Luke
Confessing Christ  – Luke 12:9-10 ( Link )

…But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Videos

  1. Jewels of Judaism
    • Ki Teitzei
      • What is the sin that leads to death? – Ki Teitzei
        There are some verses in the Bible that are difficult to understand. 1 John 5:16 is one of those verses. What is the sin that leads to death? Watch this video now to learn a reasonable answer to this question from this week’s Torah Portion.
        Link
  2. Michael Heiser
    • What is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit
      Channel :- Sentinel Apologetics
      Date Published :- 2017-June-9th
      Dated Unlisted :- 2018-August-17th
      Link
    • Council of Time : What is Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit?
      Channel :- 2nd Timothy Chapter 3
      Date Published :- 2017-June-9th
      Dated Listed :- 2018-August-17th
      Link
  3. Rob J Hyndman
    • The Watchman
      • What is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
        Link
  4. Father Anthony Messeh
    • A sermon given by Father Anthony Messeh at St. Marks Coptic Orthodox Church of Washington D.C on June 27, 2010.
      Channel  :- Orthodox Sermons
      Published  :- 2011-March-10th
      Link
  5. Jacob Prasch: Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
    • Jacob Prasch: Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
      Channel :- Moriel Ministries
      Published On :- 2015-April-17th
      Link
  6. Spirit Church, David Diga Hernandez
    • What is the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
      Channel :- Encounter TV
      Published On :- 2016-Jan-17th
      Link
  7. Doug Batchelor
    • Doug Batchelor – What is the Unpardonable Sin ?
      Link
    • The Unpardonable Sin: Part 2- (Doug Batchelor) AmazingFacts ©
      Link
  8. Tim Conway
    • I will be Honest
      • The Unpardonable Sin – Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
        Link
  9. Matt Slick
    • What is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Can a Christian commit it?
      Profile :- Matt Slick of http://www.carm.org explains what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit truly is and the fact that a believer cannot ever commit this unpardonable sin.
      Link
  10. Don Carson
    • Don Carson on the Unforgivable Sin
      Published On :- 2016-August-3rd
      Link

In-depth

The Watchman ( Answered by Rob J Hyndman )

  1. Law of Moses
    • Leviticus 24:16
      • Anyone who blasphemes sin
        • Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.
        • Verse Link
  2. Verses
    • Matthew 12:31-32
      • 31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy [every evil, abusive, injurious speaking, or indignity against sacred things] will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the [Holy] Spirit will not be forgiven.
        32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit [by attributing the miracles done by Me to Satan] will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to 
    • Mark 3:28
      • Indeed, no one can enter a strong man’s house to steal his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can plunder his house.
        Truly I tell you, the sons of men will be forgiven all sins and blasphemies, as many as they utter.
        But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of eternal sin.”…
    • Luke 12:-11
      • But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.
        And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
        When you are brought before the synagogues, rulers, and authorities, do not worry about how to defend yourselves or what to say.…
  3. Consciously and deliberately showing contempt for the Power of God
    • Miracles by Holy Spirit
    • Claimed to be pagan deity
    • Considered and deliberate
    • Knew it was not true
    • Done for Political Reason

Jewels of Judaism

What is the sin that leads to death? – Ki Teitzei

  1. 1st John 5:6
    • If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not to death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not to death. There is a sin to death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
      • Bible Hub Commentary
        Link
  2. Deuteronomy 21:
    • Bible Verse Link
      • Bible Gateway
        Link
    • Broken down
      • 18
        • “If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or of his mother, and when they reprimand and discipline him, he will not listen to them,
      • 19
        • then his father and mother shall take hold of him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his hometown.
      • 20
        • They shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.’
      • 21
        • Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from among you, and all Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
  3. How did it come to this
    • Not willing to turn from sin, which ultimately leads to death
    • Though Disciplined
    • Continuing Unrepentant Spirit
    • God wants us to wrestle with it and know the inner content

Spirit Church, David Diga Hernandez

  1. 2 Corinthians 5:11-12
    • Link
      • ESV
        • BibleGateway.com
          Link
    • Verses
      1. Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience.
      2. We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart.
  2. Greater judgement on those who teach the word
  3. Religious people are trying to trap Christ in an enigma
  4. Casting out demons by Spirit of God
  5. Angry that he is drawing people to God
  6. Fault
    • Rejecting Power of Holy Spirit
    • Identity of Christ
  7. Attribution of the Holy Spirit Work to Demonic Spirit
    • Intentional

Richard R. Melick, Jr., Ph.D :- Women Pastors: What Does the Bible Teach?

Introduction

Last week, I went to the House of Worship to work on my ministry.  But, unfortunately, I did not have the key to one of the rooms that I needed access to.  And, so I sat in on a bible studies discussion.

The facilitator was the gentleman that had picked me up from the train station and a fellow ministry worker as myself.  And, so we talked about how our Church is actually quite liberally.

One of its more modern ways is that it allows and encourages women pastors and seniors.

Richard R. Melick, Jr., Ph.D
Women Pastors: What Does the Bible Teach?

Here is Richard R. Merlick, Jr, PHD view on same subject….

Link

May 1998 Issue

The debate about whether a woman is permitted to be a pastor continues to intensify. Although there is scant historical precedent for it, many today claim that either men or women may be pastors. Throughout the centuries, Christian theologians have reflected on this issue, and the preponderance of them have concluded that the pastoral role is exclusively assigned to men. This has been the position of the Southern Baptist Convention since its earliest days, though a few Southern Baptist churches have disagreed and installed women pastors. In the current discussions of gender roles, there is a need for clear thinking about what the Bible says.

The question requires careful analysis. Southern Baptists have claimed that their doctrinal positions were either taught in the Bible or were, at the least, not contrary to the explicit teachings of Scripture. And so it is here. This article addresses some of the larger concerns revolving about the issue of women serving as pastors. The exegesis of specific texts is a necessary starting point for the discussion, but the issue goes beyond isolated texts. There is a consistent pattern of biblical teaching on the subject. Our approach will be to identify these patterns and deal with the greater issues they raise. This discussion, which is necessarily brief, should be complemented by a serious and detailed exegesis of the relevant texts.

Biblical Texts

While the Bible does not support the practice of women serving as pastors, numerous passages speak clearly and forcibly to the inherent worth and value of women. Women in the New Testament engaged in significant ministry, performing valuable service in sometimes-difficult situations. This is readily seen in the Acts of the Apostles. Both Priscilla and Aquila spoke privately to Apollos at Ephesus (Acts 18:24-26), correcting his incomplete and flawed theology. Further, women clearly played a significant role in the work of the Apostle Paul. In his letter to the Romans, Paul identified sixteen significant helpers in ministry (16:1-16), and at least ten of them were women. Who knows what the health of the church at Philippi would have been were it not for Lydia (Acts 16:13-15), apparently a benefactor to the church, and others such as Euodia and Syntyche (Phil. 4:2-3)? And of course, women made a significant contribution to Jesus’ ministry. Luke recalled with appreciation their financial support and company with Him (Luke 8:1-3).

The question at hand is not whether women are of equal value to men, nor is it whether they can minister effectively. It is, rather, the nature of their ministry in the church. More specifically, it is permissible for a woman to serve as senior pastor?

The place to begin in this, as in other biblical questions, is to ask, “What does the Bible say?” Even a cursory reading of the pertinent texts reveals three important observations: 1) there were no known women pastors in New Testament times; 2) none of the instructions regarding church order include instructions for women pastors; and 3) some texts on church order explicitly forbid women to occupy that role. Paul, in 1 Tim. 2:12, states, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man” (NIV) . This verse is introduced by a statement that women should learn “in silence,” and it is followed by the statement that “she must be silent.” The word silence means being possessed by a calmness of spirit and peaceful disposition. It is set as the opposite to “teaching” and “having authority over a man.” Paul does not expect that women will not or can not learn or teach (compare with Titus 2:3-5 and 2 Tim. 1:5; 3:14,15). He states that they cannot teach or have authority over men. Thus, they cannot have a pastoral position, or perform the pastoral function, for that puts them in authority over men.

It is logical to conclude, therefore, that the issue would not be raised today if discussion of the parameters for pastoral leadership were confined to the biblical record.

Biblical Contexts

Biblical exegesis requires sensitivity to the context of a passage. When Scripture is taken out of its context, faulty conclusions and blurred perspectives result. Two matters impact this discussion significantly – the issues of literary context and cultural context. Let us first examine literary context. Each biblical writer directed his word to specific issues. The task of the biblical expositor is to determine the precise nature of those issues.

Biblical Contexts

Biblical exegesis requires sensitivity to the context of a passage. When Scripture is taken out of its context, faulty conclusions and blurred perspectives result. Two matters impact this discussion significantly – the issues of literary context and cultural context. Let us first examine literary context. Each biblical writer directed his word to specific issues. The task of the biblical expositor is to determine the precise nature of those issues.

An example of the importance of correct contextual analysis occurs in Galatians 3:28. In explaining the meaning of justification, Paul said that in Christ there is “neither Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female.” The outstanding social characteristic of Christianity is that ethnic (“Jew nor Greek”), economic (“bond nor free”), and gender (“male nor female”) distinctions have no bearing on salvation, nor upon equal standing among all Christians. It is obvious that the context of the statement is its explanation of the impact of justification. This is a soteriological statement: it speaks to the doctrine of salvation. The teaching is that all believers, without regard to social distinctions, have equal access to God through Christ, and, consequently, are to be unified in the Body of Christ.

Near the end of his life, ten to fifteen years after the writing of the Epistle to the Galatians, Paul wrote to both Timothy and Titus, giving them pastoral instructions about how the church is to be organized. Both 1 Timothy and Titus provide clearly for a hierarchical approach to church order in which men rather than women were to occupy that role.

Some have pointed to Galatians 3:28 as justification for women serving as pastors. However, it is a misuse of Scripture to produce ecclesiastical patterns from soteriological passages! While Paul clearly affirms the equality of men and women in salvation, he equally and just as clearly affirms the priority of men in church leadership. There is no conflict. The contextual issue is crucial for an accurate exposition in this, as in all areas. Readers must exercise great care, therefore, to determine the nature of the issue under discussion in order to understand and apply the message relevantly today.

Organizational Patterns

Biblical teaching regarding church order goes hand in hand with its teaching regarding family order. Indeed the instructions for one often interrelate with instructions for the other.

One finds a similar tension in biblical teachings on family order that occurs in the doctrines of salvation and the church. Passages teaching the equality of women, reveal an important principle: in their standing before God and with each other, men and women are equal in several ways. First, they have equal value as persons (Gal. 3:28). Next, men and women have equal responsibility to communicate intimately in marriage relationships. This is seen in God’s plan that marriage is to be a companionship of equals (Gen. 2:24). It is never biblically warranted for either the man or the woman to depreciate the social, intellectual, physical, or spiritual companionship of a spouse. Finally, the Bible affirms the equal responsibility of men and women in propagating life (Gen. 1:28).

On the other hand, the Scriptures teach a hierarchy of responsibilities. The wife is to submit to her husband (Eph. 5:22). Some insist the introductory words “submitting yourselves to one another” (Eph. 5:21) somehow tempers the command for wives to submit, but the explicit teaching of the passage is that wives are to submit; husbands are to love. This interpretation is confirmed by the clear parallel passage in Colossians (3:18), and the teaching of Peter (1 Peter 3:1), where submission is specifically commanded of the wife. The Greek term used for submission (hypotasso) suggests a voluntary submission based on a commitment to proper order. It does not imply an organization based on inability or inferiority. Indeed, this term seems to have been chosen by Paul to honor the unique value of the wife. In a beautiful tension, he affirms both value and order, both equality and subordination.

Blended Patterns

The models for family and church interrelate. They do so for two reasons. First, these are the two God-ordained institutions in which we find the spiritual resources for full Christian maturity. Second, these two institutions have unique ability to reveal God to a world blinded by sin. Family and church share the central place in God’s economy.

The Scriptures frequently interrelate the family and the church. Paul clearly tied the two together in 1 Corinthians 11:2-16. He addressed a disruption caused by some of the women in the church over hairstyles (often understood as “head covering”). In a carefully reasoned argument, Paul expressed a theological conviction. If a married woman will not proudly wear a symbol of her right relationship to her husband, her familial “head,” she forfeits her privileges of praying and prophesying in church fellowships. Her ministry in the church is directly linked to her submission to her husband. Paul’s words are forceful. Married women have no right to participate in the church service if they wish to assume the prerogative of family headship and/or if they wish to act as though they were single rather than married. Here proper family order is a prerequisite to a woman’s participation in the church.

Paul addressed men similarly in the pastoral epistles. He argued that no man has the privilege of leading the church as bishop (pastor) unless he meets certain qualifications. At least one relates to family order: the pastor must “rule his family well” (1 Tim. 3:4; Tit. 1:6). Again, Paul’s conclusion is clear and forceful. If a married man does not relate to his family properly, he forfeits his right to be pastor of the church. As before, proper family order is a prerequisite to pastoral leadership. The Bible intentionally interrelates church and family for both husbands and wives. The God-ordained leadership structure in the church is reflected in the family, and vice versa.

This understanding has implications that bear directly on the question of women pastors. Proper family relationships are a prerequisite to ministry in the church. Proper relationships require the husband to function as the head and the wife to willingly submit to his leadership. In the church, wives, submissive to their husbands, are not to “have authority or be the teacher” over men (1 Timothy 2:12). This precludes a woman serving as pastor, for to do so would be to take the place of headship.

Theological Model

Let us move the discussion to another level. The complementary principles of equality and submission are built into human structures for good reason. These principles tell us about God, for in the Godhead we see both equality and submission!

The equality element derives from God’s unity. The Old Testament affirms that there is one God, and He is to be worshiped (Ex. 20:3; Dt.6:4). Yet in both the Old and the New Testaments that unity expresses itself in a consistent plurality. Historically, orthodox Christianity has referred to this plurality as “personalities.” We refer to the interrelationships within the Godhead as the doctrine of the Trinity. Each member (“personality”) of the Godhead is equal. God the Father is not greater than God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. The same is true of each of the others. God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit are not greater than the others. Equality in the Godhead is similar to the equality present among humans. Each shares the same value, the capacity for companionship, and cooperation in specific tasks. The three persons of the Godhead share deity. In that shared deity they find perfect companionship (communication and love). They also share a common mission, that of redemption. Each of the personalities is equal in essence.

Yet, reading the Bible one is confronted by a hierarchy existing among the three. Jesus acknowledged this when He declared in John 20: 21 “As the Father hath sent me, so send I you.” The Bible reveals a consistent pattern in its discussion of the tasks God undertakes. There are two primary tasks: creation and redemption. Regarding creation, God the Father planned it. Jesus spoke creation into existence and he maintains it. The Holy Spirit “hovered upon the waters” (Gen. 1:2) to complete creation’s process. In redemption the pattern continues. God the Father planned it and He elected to salvation. Jesus accomplished redemption by His death. The Holy Spirit applies the work of Jesus. Thus in the activities of God there is a division of labor and focus – what one writer called economic subordination.

The Godhead provides the unchanging model for the family and the church. There exists in each both essential equality and economic subordination. Equality is based on “who each is,” a relational, interpersonal matter. Subordination is based on “what each does,” a task oriented, functional matter. Both elements are present and are to be acknowledged in practice. Organizational subordination requires the recognition and appreciation of essential equality. Each is to value the worth of other. Communication and love is to characterize internal relationships, and each person must focus jointly on the task. When this occurs, there will be no jealousy, strife, contention, or claims of superiority or inferiority.

Summary: Should Women Be Pastors?

We have seen that the explicit texts of Scripture forbid women to serve as pastors. The biblical model for family roles supports that stance as well. It is not a matter of inferiority or worth, for all persons are of equal worth in their persons, reflecting the essential equality of the Godhead. It is a matter of function. There is no compelling reason to encourage women as pastors, and there are many reasons not to do so.

Common Objections to this Teaching

Some object to these conclusions, suggesting the following:

  1. The Apostle Paul did not really take Gal. 3:28 seriously.

Some reason that if he had, he would have allowed all persons to have the same functions in the church. Although this is a complex issue, some observations are in order. The most obvious is that Paul frequently addressed the issue of gender in the church. Sometimes his discussion was occasioned by specific problems that arose, and there is always a pattern of consistency in his solutions: they all involve the issue of women’s subordination. The pattern is found in each of the passages that deal with church order.

There is further evidence that Paul treated the gender issue uniquely among relationships in the church. In the culturally complex mix of first century churches, there was constant vying for power and leadership. For example, the church at Rome was divided at least in part over the questions of Jew/Gentile prerogatives. The emperor Claudius expelled the Jews from Rome in a.d. 49. They were allowed to return in a.d. 52, slightly before Paul wrote the Epistle to the Romans. Officially, the Romans disliked Jews, and racial tensions were most pronounced. These issues threatened the church. Paul, therefore, appealed to their equality in Christ. Another example is the explosive issue of slavery. Paul appealed to Philemon to forgive his runaway slave Onesimus as a brother in Christ. In his letter, he consistently carried out the soteriological implications of justification by faith.

On the other hand, when the problems involved church organization, Paul took a hierarchical approach. In the above examples, Paul never addressed the issue of whether Jews or Gentiles, or slaves or masters, could be pastors. Racial and economic circumstances did not matter. However, male/female relationships did have significance in organizational hierarchy. When Paul addressed them, he appealed to the model of the Godhead and expected that the church would apply both the dimensions of essential equality and economic subordination.

  1. This is purely a cultural matter: Paul lived in a culture where women were expected to be subordinate.

This issue also has many dimensions. Most agree that Rabbinic Jews had a higher regard for men than for women, though it is possible to cite evidences to the contrary. While some elements of Paul’s’ teaching on this subject are consistent with his Rabbinic background, on other occasions he set aside unnecessary Jewish traditions for the sake of the growth of an indigenous church. For example, he was the champion of grace rather than law, and at his initiative, the Jerusalem council confirmed that Jewish traditions were not necessarily biblical sanctions (Acts 15:8-11). Paul defended the right of Gentiles to develop Gentile church patterns. Though he was able to see beyond his Rabbinic background, yet he taught a functional hierarchy in the church. Why? Because his convictions were grounded in Scripture, and not simply inherited from his Jewish background.

A case illustrating this is found in 1 Corinthians 11. Some women in the church were imitating the religious leadership of the Greek women in the community. These Greek women seduced men for “religious” sexual acts in the name of their gods. In their “religious” service, these women disregarded marriage relationships. Some women at Corinth also took initiative in the worship services, disregarding their relationships with their husbands. In addressing that church problem, Paul had the perfect opportunity to commend a form of church order that allowed for women in pastoral leadership. It certainly would have been relevant to the issue. Paul’s argument was instructive. Rather than arguing Jewish culture against Greek culture, he tied his organizational instructions to his understanding of the hierarchy of the Godhead. As the relationships among the Trinity are supra cultural, so are those in the Christian family and the Church of Jesus Christ.

  1. The biblical prohibitions against women pastors are given because women were not as well educated as men.

In the passages already surveyed, two principles are evident. First, Paul did not choose to argue for men pastors based on education. Education never entered the discussion either as a problem or a solution. Women may have been less educated, but surely there were uneducated men in the churches of the first century as well. Yet, Paul did not explicitly forbid them to lead. It is extremely difficult to argue that education was at the heart of Paul’s ecclesiastical instruction.

Further, in the problem of the women in 1 Corinthians 11, Paul linked his argument for church order on proper family relationships, not on education. He allowed women to pray and speak, but only if their relationships with their husbands were proper. There is little discussion in Scripture of the educational qualifications of the pastor.

  1. It is easy for the man to hold to a hierarchical position since men are not required to submit.

This objection betrays a shallow perspective on submission. In fact, everyone is required to voluntarily submit to someone else, thus everyone is capable of understanding subordination. In 1 Corinthians 11 Paul assumed this principle as a starting point (1 Cor. 11:2). The wife submits to her husband. The husband submits to the Lord Jesus. Jesus submits to God. In His submission to God the Father, Jesus identified with both man and woman. In submission to the Lordship of Christ, men identify with the submissive role of women. Additionally, because each is called to submit to someone else, each should treat those who submit to them with the respect that allows for their complete fulfillment. These two principles combine to perfect community and understanding. Personal fulfillment is achieved in and through submission, and everyone is equal in the requirement for obedience.

  1. The hierarchical organizational patterns are only necessary because of sin; that is, if people had never sinned, there would be perfect functional equality.

A corollary idea is that since Christians are to reverse the sinful order, the church ought to practice functional equality between the sexes, without regard to the culture of the world.

This argument fails to account adequately for Paul’s treatment of the issue. It also fails to understand the theological model. True, Paul appealed to the sinful “order” (condition) in a parallel discussion (1 Tim. 2: 14, although 2:13 refers to the creation order as well). Yet, he did not always do so. In 1 Cor. 11:3 he appealed to the order of creation, not to the condition of sin. He clearly associates the need for such hierarchy to creation, time, and our humanness; not to sin.

Again, Paul understood economic subordination to exist in the Godhead (1 Cor. 11:3). Since none of the personalities of God ever sinned, this order could not be because of sin. It was a task subordination appropriate for time – for the human perspective. In accepting the organizational hierarchy, the church is actually operating consistently with the Godhead. This is confirmed in that Paul appeals, not to sin, but to a “pre-sin” order, the “order of creation.” Thus, his argument is based on a situation that existed prior to creation, and the model prescribed in the Scripture is not the result of the sinful human condition.

Conclusion

Someday neither the church nor the family will operate with such economic subordination. Marriage is only an earthly economy (Matt. 22:30). The church is the bride of Christ and will have a corporate beauty in the image of God (Eph. 4:11-16; Eph. 5:25-27). Perhaps this, too, is analogous to the Godhead since someday “God will be all in all” (1 Cor. 15:28). Prior to the eternal state, however, there is a demand for functional organization. The organization prescribed for churches pictures God’s functional organization in the Godhead. Therefore, based upon these texts and models, a woman’s spiritual service is to be in those roles assigned her by God. These do not include the role of pastor.

Of all people, Christians should accept God’s will in the most Christian of all institutions: the church and the family. These matters call for careful and prayerful analysis, for there is more at stake than initially meets the eye!

Richard R. Melick, Jr. is professor of New Testament and provost of Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary. He authored the first of Broadman’s The New American Commentary series, An Exegetical and Theological Exposition of Philippians, Colossians, and Philemon, and serves as consulting editor for the series. He wrote this article at the request of SBC LIFE.

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Christine Hayes, Theologian

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Christine Hayes is the Robert F. and Patricia Ross Weis Professor of Religious Studies at Yale University, former Chair of the Department of Religious Studies, and one of the foremost American academics focusing on talmudic-midrashic studies and Classical Judaica. She is also a specialist in the History and Literature of Judaism in Late Antiquity.

Before her appointment at Yale, she served as the Assistant Professor of Hebrew Studies, Department of Near Eastern Studies, at Princeton University from 1993 to 1996. She has published several books and numerous articles in American and international academic journals, and has received academic accolades. Her class on the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) was selected for the pilot program of “Yale University Open Courses,” and has subsequently been one of the most watched online courses about Classical Judaica.

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      • Christine Hayes: Moses at Sinai – God’s Partner or Adversary? (Shavuot 5776)
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